Drupal 11 readiness meeting / 12 February 2024 [#3420916]

Hello and welcome to the first Drupal 11 readiness meeting!This meeting:➤ Is for core and contributed project developers as well as people who have integrations and services related to core. Site developers who want to stay in the know to keep up-to-date for the easiest Drupal 11 upgrade of their sites are also welcome.➤ Happens every other Monday at 20:00 CET (currently 19:00 UTC).➤ Is done over chat.➤ Happens in threads, which you can follow to be notified of new replies even if you don't comment in the thread. You may also join the meeting later and participate asynchronously!➤ Has a public agenda anyone can add to: #3420916: Drupal 11 readiness meeting / 12 February 2024➤ Transcript will be exported and posted to the agenda issue. For anonymous comments, start with a :bust_in_silhouette: emoji. To take a comment or thread off the record, start with a :no_entry_sign: emoji.

0️⃣ Who is here today? Comment in the thread below to introduce yourself.

hestenet (he/him)	Tim from the DA (hestenet) very excited for these!
Björn Brala (bbrala)	It's time ha! :smile:
longwave	:wave: great to have these regular meetings back!
andypost	:blue_heart: thanks for starting it!
larowlan	Yellow
Juraj Nemec	Hi! :wave:
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Kristen, California :wave:
quietone	Hi
dww	Derek :wave:

1️⃣ Do you have suggested topics you are looking to discuss? Post in this thread and we’ll open threads for them as appropriate.

larowlan	Annotations to attributes
larowlan	Project update working group - hoping to kick start soon, who's interested in applying
Juraj Nemec	What about the D11 database requirements - do we plan to finalize it any time soon? #3214954: [11.x] [meta] Set Drupal 11 platform and browser requirements at least six months before the release
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Focus on contributed modules at DrupalCon contribution event or other events?
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@Kristen Pol (she/her) let's add that to the topics for next meeting :slightly_smiling_face:

2️⃣ Celebrations :tada:

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Lots to celebrate already I think :slightly_smiling_face:
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	The backwards compatibility layer in Drupal 10 for deprecated code paths is going to make it much easier to create code compatible with both Drupal 10 and 11. @Björn Brala (bbrala) @mglaman et al were working to implement rectors using that, so automatically generated fixes will also use those :slightly_smiling_face:
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	See https://mglaman.dev/blog/writing-backward-compatible-deprecation-fixes-c... for more info on this :slightly_smiling_face:

3️⃣ Drupal 11 will be released in June, July or December 2024! See #3265677: [meta] Release Drupal 11 in 2024 for the main issue and a visual mindmap representation of the issues there. (edited)

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	I noticed the issue summary is not very detailed in terms of when it will be out, Updated just now.
catch	Should be June, August or December I think.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@catch the middle one is tricky, its documented as "week of July 29" so could be July or August depending on day :smile: specifically if its on the Wednesday, it would still be July

4️⃣ The 11.x branch is still used for 10.3.x development as of now, as the 10.3.x branch is not yet open, however there are various changes to be made there to prepare for new major versions of dependencies and deprecate code. See subthreads. (edited)

longwave	this should say 10.3.x :relaxed:
longwave	the release managers are discussing when to open the 10.3.x branch and start committing 11.x only patches
larowlan	What sort of timeframe can we expect
catch	I think we should do it as soon as we're ready to update to one of jquery 4 / Symfony 7 / phpunit 10. At the moment there are only about two 11-only issues. But could also do it earlier if we think it'll help.
longwave	Symfony 7 shouldn't take too long after #3407159: [11.x] Add void returns for Symfony 7
longwave	or at least landing that will help us find the remaining tasks more easily
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	There is a dedicated https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C03L6441E1W/p1707765604151289 as the thread topic indicated :slightly_smiling_face: (edited)

4️⃣ . 1️⃣ jQuery 4 compatibility

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	A beta of jQuery 4 was released last week. @catch jumped on attempting to update in #3411839: [11.x] Update to jQuery 4.0.x beta
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@catch and @nod_ are working on #3419734: [jQuery 4] jquery-form is unmaintained and not jQuery 4 compatible, fork it into core which seems to be the main blocker based on test results.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	This is the main issue that would need helping hands ^^^
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	There is also a much smaller #3420713: Nightwatch tests fail with "unsupported pseudo: tabbable" after jQuery 4 update once that is done :slightly_smiling_face:
catch	The jQuery form fork works, it just needs review mostly now.

4️⃣ . 2️⃣ PHPUnit 9 to 11 all the way

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Drupal 10 uses PHPUnit 9, PHPUnit 10 was released in the meantime and PHPUnit 11 was also recently released.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	The main issue is #3217904: [meta] Support PHPUnit 10 in Drupal 11 where @mondrake and @neclimdul and @longwave have been working to piece apart the required changes.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	A major part recently landed in #3402444: Deprecate Test Suites, no longer available in PHPUnit 10 but was unfortunately rolled back as it conflicted with how the performance tests are ran. (edited)
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	There are a lot more in the main issue that people can get involved with :slightly_smiling_face:
mondrake	...and even more if you look at issues tagged PHPUnit 10, https://www.drupal.org/project/issues/search?projects=&project_issue_fol...
mondrake	...and yes, still a LOT to do, so all hands on deck :grinning:
longwave	this is perhaps both the hardest and least rewarding of all the D11 tasks, but we still need to do it!

4️⃣ . 3️⃣ Symfony 6 to 7

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@Spokje, @andypost and @longwave were involved in this recently :slightly_smiling_face: #3394694: [Meta] Symfony 7 compatibility -- this one definitely needs an issue summary update with more of the problems identified based on the attempted update.
andypost	Summary looks updated, 2 issues are actionable
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@andypost hm, @longwave commented a few days ago that "The list of tasks is incomplete, there are more than those listed."
andypost	Probably for new depreciations
longwave	ContainerAware and the missing void return types break everything right now but once those are done we are close I believe
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Please post specific issues where people can help if that is useful :slightly_smiling_face:
longwave	Void returns issue is RTBC, people can help on #3397519: [META] Reduce use of ContainerAware classes where possible where each usage needs to be looked at individually
andypost	Btw probably the composer's upgrade to 2.7.x is required to be backported even to 10.2 https://github.com/composer/composer/security/advisories/GHSA-7c6p-848j-...
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@andypost but composer 2.2.23 has this backported as per that advisory? (edited)
andypost	Yes, because 2.2 is the current LTS release
Spokje	#3421371: Security update composer/composer (CVE-2023-43655)

4️⃣ . 4️⃣ Deprecating modules in Drupal 10: action, book, field layout, forum, statistics, tour and tracker are planned.

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	See #3265680: Deprecate dependencies, libraries, modules, and themes that will be removed from Drupal 11 core for a list of those modules and other smaller pieces planned to be depreacted.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	One process improvement recently suggested by @catch was to bundle the database dump removals for multiple modules in #3414563: Add new 10.3.x database dump fixtures, without modules deprecated for removal in 11.x
andypost	I bet it mostly blocked on depreciation of plugins #3039240: Create a way to declare a plugin as deprecated
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@andypost I don't think modules themselves are blocker on that(?) but deprecating other things may be possible once there is a way to deprecate plugins indeed :slightly_smiling_face: that said, there is not that much time left at this point?
catch	Yeah entire modules can be deprecated, we don't deprecate individual APIs because the contrib version provides them. A lot of these are very close now.
catch	Field layout shouldn't be on the list here, it's supposed to be replaced in core then marked obsolete eventually.
catch	It should be on a list, just not this specific one.
andypost	Yep, not replaced but incorporated into core
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	It would be good to get done at one point though, its a lot more complicated than moving to contrib...
andypost	Then it needs a product manager review
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	ok I provided "product manager review" in #3007167: [META] Enable layout builder for form displays, and deprecate field_layout#comment-15438456 which is more about accepting the bleak situation the module is in
andypost	Maybe @timplunkett (he/him) can mention about sense to reroll [#2844302]As this is only blocker
andypost	And 150k patch surely needs split to be reviewed
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Last time Tim posted on the issue was 5 years ago, so I think its safe to say its not a priority :smile:
Kristen Pol (she/her)	That’s a lot!
quietone	The last issues for Book, Forum and Tour are for removing them from themes. I am not much use on these so asking for help and reviews.
dww	I see Archive_Tar on the list for research. That's only used for Update Manager AFAIK. I don't believe we have an issue yet for formally deprecating the "Update Manager" parts of update.module (the install-new-code UI, authorize.php, etc) when autoupdates is stable. I don't think there's much, if anything, to deprecate. Very hard to believe contrib has extended any of that weird plumbing. :sweat_smile: But do we need to put this on the radar for things we're planning to deprecate / remove?
dww	There's #3285191: [meta] Only support Drupal core installs managed by composer, but that's not the same scope of what I'm talking about
dww	Ahh, clicking through enough rabbit holes, I find #3417136: Remove adding an extension via a URL -- that's most of it
dww	Tried to summarize at #3285191: [meta] Only support Drupal core installs managed by composer#comment-15442566

5️⃣ Drupal 10 to 11 automated tooling: Project update bot!

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@Björn Brala (bbrala) and I worked on updating the bot to post Drupal 10 to 11 patches now. @Björn Brala (bbrala) tested it on jsonapi_extras :slightly_smiling_face: However now we need to make it open MRs instead. Any takers? :slightly_smiling_face:
Björn Brala (bbrala)	I wrote an outline in an issue for that.
Björn Brala (bbrala)	#3286278: Project Update Bot should create MRs instead of using patches
Björn Brala (bbrala)	in a comment, is update NOT done. was just dumping an overview, sorry (edited)
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	ah commented there then :slightly_smiling_face:
Björn Brala (bbrala)	Edited, IS was not updated
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Exciting that this may be within reach :slightly_smiling_face: Do you have time to start experimenting with this or should I? :slightly_smiling_face:
Björn Brala (bbrala)	The hoest aanser is that it will be hard for me to find the time and energy right now.
Björn Brala (bbrala)	(Autocorrect was in dutch oops)
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Ok I'll take a look, should I generate a "random" ssh key and add it to the user? ;)
Björn Brala (bbrala)	YES
Björn Brala (bbrala)	thats how i would do it
Björn Brala (bbrala)	then add the PK to the secret in the repo
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Thanks for the work on this :heart:
Björn Brala (bbrala)	I've done some more initial work on this as a morning exercise. All untested until now, but the flow is getting clear. Still need to do IS maintenance lol :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Ah sorry I did not get around to this yet.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Thanks for your work!
Björn Brala (bbrala)	No worries. Had some spare time for some simple stuff

6️⃣ Annotations to attributes

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Suggested by @larowlan
larowlan	What's the next steps here, are we just going to do them one issue per plugin type?
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Summoning those who were involved may help to discuss this. Who are those people? :)
larowlan	@longwave @Björn Brala (bbrala)
catch	I think it's one issue per plugin type yeah. We might not even want to deprecate annotations in Drupal 10 assuming we remove in 12 but supporting everywhere would be good.
longwave	we should start opening some new issues for plugin types, ideally the easiest ones first that don't have many properties to consider
larowlan	Will discuss this internally at work to see if we can take a lead on this
larowlan	Added child issues for all of them #3396165: [meta] Convert all core plugin types to attribute discovery

7️⃣ Project update working group - hoping to kickstart soon, who's interested in applying?

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Topic proposed by @larowlan
larowlan	The issue is RTBC and has been approved by Dries
larowlan	I think the next step is an MR to update governance repo then we call for nominations and work with drupal.org maintainers on getting a new role (if needed)
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	#3406954: Proposal - create a 'Project Update Working Group'
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Assuming the MR will be the text proposed in the issue I am happy to commit to speed this up :)
larowlan	It will take me away from the RTBC queue but I'll try to get that MR up today
larowlan	Sooner we get this rolling etc
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Fantastic work :heart_eyes:
larowlan	opened https://git.drupalcode.org/project/governance/-/merge_requests/19 for review
greg-boggs	Looks great. When can we start applying? :)
larowlan	Once it has been committed to governance project I'll do an announcement
greg-boggs	Super exciting. Thanks larowlan

8️⃣ Proposed "Tooling for code upgrades" topic, core gate, and maintainers

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@mglaman proposed himself and @Björn Brala (bbrala) for #3400254: Add a developer tooling topic to Drupal core
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	More feedback would be welcome there to help craft this :slightly_smiling_face: There was/is some tinkering with what to name it exactly to make it clear and avoid confusion.
mglaman	I proposed this in a heat of issues. But I'm not sure how this would really work
mglaman	It seems like it'd be better with some kind of CI job than personal manual intervention. Maybe now that we have GitLab CI it would be easier
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	What would the CI job look for / test?
mglaman	:melting_face: I guess I don't know. Shoot. I guess it's more of a test-driven approach by flagged deprecations and verifying the PHPStan job fails
mglaman	So it's still a process problem. If that fails we need phpstan-drupal work
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@mglaman you are saying the CI job would use some kind of baseline and check if a @deprecated or some other marker was added in the MR, that phpstan now reports more than the baseline? Or or based on expected deprecations introduced in tests or somesuch given that it is more likely to fail where not existing deprecation infrastructure is used (such as with annotations)
mglaman	I need to think on how it could work. The problem is that the deprecation is usually added and verified as “fix” by removal and a unit test. Not necessarily that it was found/fixed via PHPStan. And that if it wasn’t caught by PHPStan, an issue isn’t necessarily opened or mentioned on the CR
mglaman	It’s like a test-only run… but only of the added deprecations :sweat_smile: which is impossible to know. Especially if it’s a big one like the enforced accessCheck
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Well, it is possible to know if there was added test coverage for the new deprecation?
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Which I think may be a usual scenario?
mglaman	That should be a usual scenario. I just can’t fathom how we could run PHPStan with only the deprecation tags or such add… I guess it’s really “hey this patch introduced trigger_error but no @deprecations added to code!
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Well, that is a simple regex on the diff? :stuck_out_tongue:
mglaman	yeah, that one seems a lot easier than something complex
mglaman	I’m trying to think of a really “dumb” solution that could have helped catch things. Like “oh, this failed. it’s not a simple deprecation, we should make sure the tooling for detecting this is provided”

9️⃣ When will Drupal 11 database requirements be finalized? (edited)

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Issue at #3214954: [11.x] [meta] Set Drupal 11 platform and browser requirements at least six months before the release
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Topic proposed by @Juraj Nemec
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	My understanding there is that MySQL/MariaDB, SQLite and Postgres are all set? What's missing @Juraj Nemec?
Juraj Nemec	I see the child issues (PostgreSQL, SQLite and MySQL) as RTBC, so probably close to be done, but not fixed yet?
Juraj Nemec	But it is great that we have PHP requirements already set, which is more important I think.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	I think all of the child issues are RTBC so this would also be either marked fixed or RTBC? cc @catch
catch	I kept wanting to mark fixed but I think we need to update d.o docs first.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	platform requirements pages?
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	this one for example? https://www.drupal.org/docs/getting-started/system-requirements/overview...
catch	Lol I didn't know it was there. So we could just update that for now. Eventually it would be nice if the top level page had a clear path for 10 Vs 11
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	I'll look into this tomorrow :slightly_smiling_face:
andypost	Sqlite docker image split needs opinions as sqlite is bundled #3419616: Create PHP 8.3 image containing sqlite 3.45
quietone	Doing the work for these has been on my list since last week. I've just been distracted with other things in my life. But it looks like I can get to it today.
quietone	The Overview page listed above means that there are two documents in the same guide that must be changed. Honestly, I don't want to maintain the info in two place. I would prefer if committers only updated the specific requirement pages.
quietone	the docs are updated but not the Overview. The Overview has links to the individual requirements pages anyway. The policy issues are Fixed, and follow ups exist.
quietone	For implementation, waiting on SQLite 3.45 and MariaDB 10.6 environments.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Yay thanks! @hansfn also noted in the mysql issue that we need an INSTALL.txt update issue postponed to when the 11.x branch is open for 11.x things :slightly_smiling_face:
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Opened #3421175: Update INSTALL.txt and hook_requirements() etc. with remaining Drupal 11 platform requirements

🔟 Thanks all for coming to the meeting. Next one planned in two weeks! (Should it be a different cadence?) (edited)

Kristen Pol (she/her)	Thanks for running :pray:
greg-boggs	@Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) ++
dww	2 weeks seems good for now. :sweat_smile:

Participants:

larowlan, Juraj Nemec, Kristen Pol, Gábor Hojtsy, catch, longwave, mondrake, andypost, Spokje, quietone, dww, Björn Brala (bbrala), greg-boggs, mglaman