Re: Debian Stretch new user report (vs Linux Mint)

On Mon, Dec 04, 2017 at 02:33:07PM +0100, Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
> Just because software comes pre-installed doesn't mean it is free. And
> if it is also impossible to replace the software you also can't update
> it with a free version so the user has even less freedom than when you
> can replace the software with something else.

While there is truth to what you say, and while it's a point that gets
brought up pretty much every time the issue of non-free firmware is
discussed, it is not a problem Debian can solve. We don't produce the
hardware, we have little say in the choice of the hardware, and there
is little we can do fix the freedom-related problems of software
embedded in or too tighly dependent on hardware - except that we can
explain the problems and pros and cons of possible solutions and maybe
point to less-problematic hardware choices. The result of this is not
a perfect world, but it might be a better world.

Just because a problem is currently too difficult to solve doesn't
mean we have to give up any hope of solving other problems that are
feasible for us to solve.

Myself, I would prefer us to keep both the free-software-only ISO and
the non-free ISO with firmware and other things needed to get typical
modern hardware running, and improve the discoverability of the
latter. I think we can do that without having to have a GR to change
the Social Contract or the DFSG.