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Development quotes of the week

This is going to be a pointless never ending debate. Git is flexible enough to let you do this in multiple ways, people are going to have their preferences. Just agree to disagree and move on.

I mean, come on. It took years for vim to win the editor wars. We don't have time to waste on another debate like that ;)

Josh Boyer

We've won on so many fronts, but we've also lost our way. It would have been unthinkable and scandalous even a decade ago for a presenter at a Linux conference to use Powerpoint on Windows, but you only have to count the Macbooks at a modern Linux conferences (even among the presenters!) to see how many in the community have lost the very passion for and principles around Open Source software that drove Linux's success. A vendor who dared to ship their Linux applications as binaries without source code used to get the wrath of the community but these days everyone's pockets are full of proprietary apps that we justify because they sit on top of a bit of Open Source software at the bottom of the stack. We used to rail against proprietary protocols and push for open standards but today while Linux dominates the cloud, everyone interacts with it through layers of closed and proprietary APIs.

Linux has become the vegetable we batter in proprietary software and deep fry--sure more people will eat it that way but it's not nearly as good for you. Over time we've all started eating our vegetables that way and it's made our community unhealthy. In our healthier days we fought and won against proprietary software giants like Microsoft, Sun, and Oracle, but in the meantime our appetites have changed and other giants have taken their place.

Kyle Rankin

Writing Haskell is almost trivial in practice. You just start with the magic fifty line {-# LANGUAGE ... #-} incantation to fast-forward to 2017, then add 150 libraries that you’ve blessed by trial and error to your cabal file, and then just write down a single type signature whose inhabitant is Refl to your program. In fact if your program is longer than your import list you’re clearly doing Haskell all wrong.
Stephen Diehl

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Development quotes of the week

Posted Dec 7, 2017 10:08 UTC (Thu) by halla (subscriber, #14185) [Link]

"We've won on so many fronts, but we've also lost our way. " says Kyle Rankin, announcing that Linux Journal stopped. And "how many in the community have lost the very passion for and principles around Open Source software that drove Linux's success."

Weirdly enough, their last mention of GIMP tells us how easy it is to install on OSX, and how awesome that is...

excuse me but...

Posted Dec 7, 2017 17:50 UTC (Thu) by tome (subscriber, #3171) [Link] (11 responses)

"It took years for vim to win the editor wars."

Well, maybe in one sense, but like the cold war, it's not really over. Emacs is arguably a better vim than vim now, and there is a huge and growing vim expat community adopting emacs. I've always said using a non-modal editor is plain dumb, and I still do, while using emacs.

Sorry I couldn't just let a dead dog lie.

excuse me but...

Posted Dec 7, 2017 18:28 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] (1 responses)

I think that was a joke.

(I hope that was a joke. :) )

excuse me but...

Posted Dec 8, 2017 14:08 UTC (Fri) by tome (subscriber, #3171) [Link]

You calling this a joke?!? Let's take this outside, pal.

All kidding aside, I was serious about one point. Vim is my preferred editor but I use the emacs implementation. So much so that my life would very seriously suck without evil, evil-leader, and hydra (which transcends vim). So much so that I feel deep reverence and gratitude for both vim and emacs. And war is fun.

excuse me but...

Posted Dec 7, 2017 20:35 UTC (Thu) by flussence (guest, #85566) [Link] (7 responses)

Vim won the editor wars in the same way Perl won the language wars, or Linux won the OS wars: the core concept has irrevocably permeated everything around it, whether or not people use the original.

excuse me but...

Posted Dec 8, 2017 17:42 UTC (Fri) by Jandar (subscriber, #85683) [Link] (2 responses)

What is the core concept of Perl that irrevocably permeate everything around it?

excuse me but...

Posted Dec 8, 2017 20:45 UTC (Fri) by tome (subscriber, #3171) [Link] (1 responses)

If you consider Perl's regular expressions to be a core concept, the pcre library pervades the re space.

excuse me but...

Posted Dec 15, 2017 17:29 UTC (Fri) by flussence (guest, #85566) [Link]

Indeed, PCRE is a massive improvement over all the alternatives I've seen. It's a shame Perl's testing culture hasn't caught on in the same way…

excuse me but...

Posted Dec 17, 2017 22:50 UTC (Sun) by HelloWorld (guest, #56129) [Link] (3 responses)

> Vim won the editor wars in the same way Perl won the language wars, or Linux won the OS wars: the core concept has irrevocably permeated everything around it, whether or not people use the original.
So what is this "core concept" you're talking about? Because if I had to guess I'd say modes, and that hasn't caught on at all, really. In fact I'd say that most people put up with vi for the same reason people use Notepad on Windows: because it's installed by default, and for a machine that you don't work with on a regular basis, you wouldn't bother installing a decent editor.

excuse me but...

Posted Dec 18, 2017 6:28 UTC (Mon) by neilbrown (subscriber, #359) [Link] (2 responses)

I think the "core concept" of vi is to have the four cursor motion keys all close together.
emacs has n, p, f, b (all with control held down). which is not very ergonomical.
vi uses h,j,k,l which is much more sensible.
This concept has "permeated everything around it", where "everything" is the keyboard. Modern keyboard have 4 arrow keys all close together - obviously a lesson learned not from emacs, but from vi. World domination achieved.

excuse me but...

Posted Dec 18, 2017 8:17 UTC (Mon) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link] (1 responses)

I don't think we needed vi to figure out that the cursor keys should be near one another on the keyboard. Indeed, if the cursor keys were actually patterned on vi, they would all be in a horizontal row, but they usually aren't.

In fact, the vi arrangement makes a lot of sense if you consider that when vi was new, there was no guarantee that your terminal would have separate dedicated cursor keys at all (this incidentally is also why we have modes in vi to begin with). Emacs, OTOH, can get away with the “mnemonic” movement keys because by the time (GNU) Emacs came around, keyboards generally came with dedicated cursor keys, so the need for a vi-style movement key pattern on the main keyboard was less dire.

excuse me but...

Posted Dec 19, 2017 19:01 UTC (Tue) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link]

Always fun to point out but I believe the system vi was developed on had the following terminal and keyboard layout:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADM-3A#/media/File:KB_Termi...

excuse me but...

Posted Dec 7, 2017 23:35 UTC (Thu) by pjtait (subscriber, #17475) [Link]

Look up Poe's Law....


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