Stun baton tweak #20970
Stun baton tweak #20970
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Changes: No C#
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bowling still strong just 3 batons instead of 2 |
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I’m down to try this, but want to hear some other people’s opinions first since it’s a relatively important change. |
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I think this change is kind of pointless because of how well stunbaton hits chain, you hit one and then they're slowed for a decade and you can just chain the rest, imo reduce the slow or remove it so this change is actually meaningful. Outside of that, I think this is an alright change. |
You'll only be slowed after 2 hits so it does still help that |
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I still thinks stuns are currently in a reasonable place and nerfing them would leave security with too few meaningful nonlethal options, especially with the recent flash change. |
I disagree, I main sec and have mained sec for the majority of my playtime, this version of the stunbaton nerf will not underpower sec, 2 hit stuns that chain from 1 hit aren't balanced or fun. If sec players have to get (slightly) better at the game because now they have to land effectively 2 (3) hits instead of 1(2) it's not a problem because stunbatons already have a pitiful skill floor and ceiling. I also failed to see the "recent flash change", I know of a PR that removed flash slowdown but it's closed, so what are you mentioning? |
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I say 👍 I can vividly imagine getting stun battoned once, futilely trying to escape, then getting hit again and arrested immediately. |
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I'm okay trying this, however, I do feel overall stunbatons are in a good place at the moment (due to their power consumption) I feel as if the focus should maybe be put to beanbag rounds, but that's a separate discussion. As someone who plays security frequently, I understand they may feel strong, but personally they just seem fine. Most of the time if you are putting yourself in a position to be stunned that close range, you should be prepared for it. EMPs are undervalued for how cheap they are. The short version is, we should try this change for maybe a week, and then come back to discuss if this change should stay or not. |
Power consumption doesn't exist on practice, when you use 2 hits to stun and cuff a guy you bring them to the brig or a checkpoint, there you can refill the baton and have your 2/10 hits back, its really a non-issue if you're not lazy. If you're on clock you can take a full one if its mapped or from belts in lockers, again, non-issue. The thing about stunbatons is that sec has a lot of tools for getting in close-quarters or slowing their opponent, not to mention that we're on a SILLY SPACE STATION with TINY HALLWAYS AND A MILLION CORNERS, not mentioning maints or being in close proximity to begin with, if you willingly walk into a stunbaton you're a fool because it's a very unfavorable situation for you. Stunbatons were never fine, not before stamina damage, not after, they were always overtuned and even now despite there being more countermeasures for stunbatons they're still stupidly strong and allow an otherwise terrible player to win 90% of the engagements purely because they walked forward and landed 1 hit. |
keronshb
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S: DO NOT MERGE
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I do personally think no one should be two tapped by a stun baton but there was discussion on one of the previously closed PRs. |
I often find when I'm busy as security, I do not have time always to recharge or swap my baton or disabler, its very much a real mechanic for even "non-lazy" security officers. Granted may not be all the time, but its still an issue sometimes. Acting like it doesn't exist, isn't a real point in my opinion.
Will address in third paragraph.
Again, I'm perfectly fine trying this change, but one decently timed EMP Implant or Grenade just negates ALL charge of security equipment and buys ample time to escape or make a move. At the very least it evens the playing field a bit more. People underestimate how valuable EMPs are. Like you yourself said, if you put yourself into a situation where a stunbaton is viable, its your fault, be prepared for it, or at least have a "Oh fuck" plan. The stunbaton, when not activated, does nine units of brute damage, most weapons (Such as crowbars, baseball bats, spears, knifes, E-Daggers espesially) do more damage than that. I know it is not always a fair fight, with a single syndicate being put against security officers, but with minimal planning or "break incase of emergency" preparation, you can level the fight quite easily. Like I said, we should try this change momentarily and see if it 1) Actually fixes or helps with the problem 2) If its to over tuned and if we have to look at a fix from a different perspective. We can come back and discuss afterwards on if it should remain or not. I think I still believe that beanbag rounds are a bigger issue, but I'm likely in the minority. |
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i think that beanbag rounds are fine because the barkeep needs them to defend his bar and he only has two barrels, the problem could be solved by just giving security a new shotgun type, like rubbershot from ss13 which is a spread of rubber pellets |
It is a real point, you can stun at least 4 players from one charge, while at most you're going to stun one or two; you won't need the entire baton before you get to refill it aside from extremely specific circumstances, I've never had the issue of running out of charge in ordinary gameplay (patrols, arrests for mischief, enforcing order) and can name only a few times I've ran out of charge in unordinary gameplay (nukies, long station-wide power outages, sec being blown to bits, loud traitors, etc) You don't run out of charge if you're willing to maintain it, and you have the option to do so at nearly all times, even if you're busy, just brought someone in, you still need to explain the situation to the warden and optionally even document it; this gives you all the time in the world to get a new baton or recharge your old one. As per such the current baton isn't balanced around charge, nor is it as an important factor in considering the overall strength of the item as the stamina damage per hit for example.
EMPs while theoretically solve the issue, but that just opens up more options for the secoff as they have access to the harmful part of their arsenal now, but that's not as integral to stunbaton balance as other factors are. A situation where a baton is viable is also one where shooting 9mm directly into whoever you tried to baton is most viable. Using the baton as a melee is a bad idea, weak damage, the stamina damage coefficient from blunt damage is pitiful, and you have a better option at roundstart (the knife). You can level the fight as an antag with more ways than an EMP, stunbatons have counters after all, but all these counters don't balance out the baton to not be overpowered despite the wide variety of theoretical options. |
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Closing due to requesting this user make no further balance changes. |
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I'm doing more stam work in #18615 but this gets feelers on reduced baton damage in the interim. |
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About the PR
stun batons now take 3 hits to stun someone (35 per swing, so two to slow) and their battery use has been dropped by half
Why / Balance
Metal gear sloth wanted it (cant find their drafted PR)
should give syndies and other victims more leeway when attacked by so surprise baton has like a second more time to react
Media
Changelog
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🆑 JoeHammad