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While once again reviewing the Data Request page looking for an answer to my ignored concerns, I stumbled on the current revision of the Privacy Policy page.

In its first paragraph the policy reads:

Stack Overflow welcomes you to the Network, the largest community of developers and technologists in the world, and invites you to participate in the community by sharing knowledge with your peers and colleagues.

WE DO NOT AND WILL NOT SELL YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION.

Yet later we find these contrasting claims:

We may engage with third parties in business transactions, including the buying and selling of assets, the auditing of our business practices and financials, and to engage in business development opportunities. This may involve the processing and/or disclosure of some limited personal information, which may be necessary and within our legitimate interests to develop the Stack Overflow brand and business. If we transfer any personal information in pursuing such a business transaction we will always ensure that strict confidentiality measures are in place to protect your privacy interests.

Here the company states that they may transfer personal info when pursuing commercial opportunities as it is convenient to them.

Later we find this other line:

If we choose to sell, transfer, or merge parts of our business or our assets, your personal data would be shared with such third parties as part of such a transaction. Alternatively, we may seek to acquire other businesses or merge with them. If a change happens to our business, then the new owners may use your personal data in the same way as set out in this privacy notice.

I read this as a tautology: if we sell your data to someone then they get your data.

Lastly by the end of the page we get this little gem:

Stack Overflow does not sell (as the term is defined in the CCPA) the personal information we collect (and will not sell it without providing a right to opt out). Please note that we do use third-party cookies for our advertising purposes, as described in our cookie policy.

I can't even start on how bad this line is: basically you are telling us that you won't ever sell our personal data... but IF YOU DO we can opt out (provided that we knew and probably by snail mail only). This is as reassuring as the aliens in To Serve Man telling us that they will never eat humans but if they do... we get to choose what sauce to go with.

I think everyone can agree this is as clear as mud during a solar eclipse.

I therefore post this question to ask for clarification on what USER PERSONAL DATA the company has sold, reserves the right to sell or plans to sell in the pursue of commercial agreement not tied to the core activity of the site (serving questions, data access, etc).

In particular, since this is not a core activity required to keep the site working, I would request clarification about the impact of the above in the recent OpenAI partnership.

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    If I have to ask for clarification of terms and never get a straight answer, I just assume the worst-for-me interpretation and act accordingly. If the terms protected users' privacy, they would be proud of that and happy to clarify. If the terms were written expressly to allow the company to do things without worrying about losing in arbitration, then they don't want to make that clear.
    – ColleenV
    Commented Jul 18 at 17:46
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    @wizzwizz4 Actually, Art. 12(1) - "The controller shall take appropriate measures to provide any information referred to in Articles 13 and 14 and any communication under Articles 15 to 22 and 34 relating to processing to the data subject in a concise, transparent, intelligible and easily accessible form, using clear and plain language, in particular for any information addressed specifically to a child." Commented Jul 18 at 18:19
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    And don't forget this dodgy legalese explanation around their Advertising Guidelines and sharing user activity.
    – Dhaust
    Commented Jul 19 at 2:55
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    Added status-review as I'm working with our Privacy team on an answer for this one - it may take a bit since it involves legal, but I'll have something when I can.
    – Cesar M StaffMod
    Commented Jul 19 at 16:06
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    @CesarM when you can might well be never. Can you provide a tighter deadline than 6-8 time units of indeterminate duration?
    – muru
    Commented Jul 19 at 16:26
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    @muru not as of now. But I am working on it, it'll get an answer and it'll not be never :P "when I can" means when I have it ready, as in, we're working on it currently, not "we'll pick it up when we have time".
    – Cesar M StaffMod
    Commented Jul 19 at 16:47
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    For the parts about the confusing privacy statements or how it's stated in there, that's a thing for the legal team so their opinion is relevant I guess. Also I think CMs making statements about topics like that without knowing/checking first would be a bad idea so asking legal/privacy teams does make sense.
    – dan1st
    Commented Jul 19 at 21:46
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    @Gloweye besides what dan1st said (which is correct), our privacy team is part of our legal team, and since this a privacy matter, I have to talk to our privacy lawyer before writing up a response (+ it involves double checking our practices around different products, which is something the privacy team can do). So it very much depends on me talking to the privacy team to be able to write an effective (and true) answer.
    – Cesar M StaffMod
    Commented Jul 20 at 0:19
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    @CesarM I understand these things can take time (especially when having to involve legal teams), but it’s been over a month since the question was raised and in the end it is a yes or no question. Could we please get an update on the current status (E.g, checking products, drafting an answer, reviewing a draft with legal)? Given the importance of this topic I think any information/update would be appreciated.
    – A-Tech
    Commented Sep 3 at 14:19
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    @A-Tech a lot of the issues raised by users in Updates to Privacy Policy (September 2021) went unanswered to this day (the post seemed energetic but it bogged down soon enough)... So that's +3 years waiting! Hence when history recently repeated itself in July 2024 -- my answer was neither optimistic nor enthusiastic :P
    – bad_coder
    Commented Sep 3 at 14:26
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    @bad_coder thanks for pointing out. I have updated the post to reflect this. Also, IMHO this escalated the issue from "maybe they are genuinely confused" to "they have been knowing for three years and don't give a damn" Commented Sep 4 at 8:32
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    @wizzwizz4 also, admitting Google has privileged api access and document it would also cause a lot of more issues. There is no way they could portrait "Google tracking" as "needed" for the reasonable requirements of running the site, and as far as I get Google is ingrained in the site MORE than being just an ads provider. So I would not be surprised if some of the data Google gets was out of scope and sanction-able. Alas, this is not the point either, I don't want to play guessing. THE POINT IS THAT THEY HAD 3 YEARS SINCE SOMEONE FIRST ASKED THIS, YET THEY HAVE TO START INVESTIGATING NOW?? Commented Sep 4 at 13:20
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    @vandench I don't know what annoys me more: the total absence of any answer, or the company pretending they don't understand why we accrue bad faith to many recent changes. How can you think we have any trust left in the company when they constantly avoid any topic they are not comfortable talking about? WHY SHOULD I NOT ASK MYSELF WHAT SCAM THEY FEAR TO DISCLOSE??? Commented Sep 23 at 8:13
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    @SPArcheon-onstrike I know that that is not the satisfying answer. And that's why that isn't the answer I posted. But.... that's sort of a lose-lose situation, no? I can give the easy answer, which is, as it says in the privacy policy, no, we don't sell your personal information. Or I can go and do the complete answer, which takes time, because it needs to address and explain all the points made in the post. Either way people get frustrated. I'm not saying you're wrong; just pointing out that you'd be upset either way. Anyway, it shouldn't take too much more time.
    – Cesar M StaffMod
    Commented Sep 24 at 15:59
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    As for the edit, not trying to actively misconstrue anything. Point taken. It was an honest misread on my part. It isn't exactly fair to call it a scam either. Or that we're avoiding this. Yes it's a long wait, but avoiding is not a true construction either. As for people waiting on that 2021 post, I don't think we said we'd answer those questions in 2021, so... not the same situation as tagging this status review and committing that we'd answer it. I know that isn't satisfying to hear either, but there are actually good reasons (internal) for why it's different in 2024 and in 2021.
    – Cesar M StaffMod
    Commented Sep 24 at 16:01

2 Answers 2

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We take the privacy and security of personal information very seriously, so it took us a while to answer this question. Apologies for the wait, but we needed the time.

To get right into it: no, Stack does not sell your personal data. And under the current text of the Privacy Policy, couldn't engage in a practice that would be the equivalent of a CCPA sale under GDPR without your opt-in consent. We currently apply an opt-in regime across the board, mirroring GDPR requirements. In a general context, a sale typically refers to the exchange of goods, services, or property for money. A sale in the context of privacy law refers to a concept under the California Consumer Privacy Act (CCPA), which defines sale as the “selling, renting, releasing, disclosing, disseminating, making available, transferring, or otherwise communicating a consumer’s personal information by the business to another business or a third party for monetary or other valuable consideration.” As stated in our privacy notice, Stack does not sell your personal data.

The CCPA has a few exceptions that make a practice that would otherwise be considered a sale not a sale:

  1. When a consumer intentionally directs a business to disclose their personal information;
  2. When a business shares personal information with a service provider for a “business purpose”; and
  3. When a business transfers a consumer’s personal information as part of a merger, acquisition, bankruptcy, or other transaction.

Specifically, for (2), a business purpose isn’t just “making money”. There are more details right below (see the bulleted list).

As for under the GDPR, there are no general restrictions on the sale of personal data. However, data controllers (like Stack) must comply with the principles of the GDPR, including fairness and having a lawful basis for the processing. In other words, if we did sell personal data, we could not and would not sell yours without, for example, first obtaining your consent.

I believe that there are some things being conflated on the initial question that are generating some confusion, so hopefully, the following brings clarity.

For example, the quote that was classified as “contrasting claims”

We may engage with third parties in business transactions, including the buying and selling of assets, the auditing of our business practices and financials, and to engage in business development opportunities. This may involve the processing and/or disclosure of some limited personal information, which may be necessary and within our legitimate interests to develop the Stack Overflow brand and business. If we transfer any personal information in pursuing such a business transaction we will always ensure that strict confidentiality measures are in place to protect your privacy interests.

Under the CCPA, a business may disclose personal information where it is reasonably necessary and proportionate for operational purposes, which include:

  • Auditing;
  • Security;
  • Debugging;
  • Short-term, transient use;
  • Performing services on behalf of a business or service provider;
  • Undertaking internal research; and
  • Quality assurance and improvement.

The quoted statement refers to a scenario where Stack uses a third party to support some aspect of a business transaction, where personal data is processed/disclosed as part of the transaction (not sold). For example, hosting our sites’ databases includes personal information about our users, and they process your personal information. This would not occur unless processing is done when it’s necessary and within Stack’s legitimate interests, which is a legally defined term under the GDPR and not a broad “any interest the company has” and that we take steps to protect privacy, such as for example having contractual clauses about the data.

As for the other quote about parts of the business:

If we choose to sell, transfer, or merge parts of our business or our assets, your personal data would be shared with such third parties as part of such a transaction. Alternatively, we may seek to acquire other businesses or merge with them. If a change happens to our business, then the new owners may use your personal data in the same way as set out in this privacy notice.

I do understand your concerns about business transactions and whether that would be considered a sale. The CCPA’s definition of sale explicitly excludes this scenario.

For purposes of this title, a business does not sell personal information when: (C) The business transfers to a third party the personal information of a consumer as an asset that is part of a merger, acquisition, bankruptcy, or other transaction in which the third party assumes control of all or part of the business…

Therefore, in the event of a business transaction (sell, transfer, or merge parts of the business), we would inform you about the transfer of your personal information and provide you with all other required information. Again, while sale isn’t a concept under the GDPR, we would still be required to inform data subjects in the event of a business transaction, particularly if it involves the transfer of personal data. This does not cover the sale of personal data, but rather the sale of part (or the entirety) of the business that results in the transfer of personal data. So it doesn’t mean the reading you mention of “if we sell your data to someone then they get your data.”

Stack Overflow does not sell (as the term is defined in the CCPA) the personal information we collect (and will not sell it without providing a right to opt out). Please note that we do use third-party cookies for our advertising purposes, as described in our cookie policy.

This is standard language about the sale of data. It reinforces that we do not sell personal data (as defined in the CCPA). And if we were to engage in such practice, we wouldn’t do it without providing a right to opt-out (also as per the CCPA).

I hope this helps clarify things some. Our Privacy Team remains available at [email protected] for individual questions.

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+25

As a EU citizen I might have a different view of privacy and data protection but it goes along these lines:

Data Protection

Privacy and Data Protection, though connected, are commonly recognised all over the world as two separate rights.

What is Privacy?

In the EU, human dignity is recognised as an absolute fundamental right.

In this notion of dignity, privacy or the right to a private life, to be autonomous, in control of information about yourself, to be let alone

Privacy – a fundamental right

Moreover, privacy is recognised as a universal human right while data protection is not – at least not yet.

What is Data Protection?

Data protection is about protecting any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural (living) person, including names, dates of birth, photographs, video footage, email addresses and telephone numbers.


So, my firstmost concern with SE since I've joined has been the contradicting data protection (PII selling clauses) in the TOS that SPArcheon's question highlights. I inquired in chat but no one answered, I searched MSE's Q&A for the fundamental question if SE sells or has sold user PII.

What we're left with to address our concerns is approximately:

  1. When SE was sold to Prosus we got this answer that contradicts the TOS and isn't at all satisfying nor enough IMO.
  2. You can't remove your original email address without going through a number of nuisances.
  3. +600 mods can get a user email address dump.
  4. Any company with the money can get SE user tracking though advertisement.

The shortlist above is already a scandal, but it goes on...

So when someone asks: why are users leaving SE? In my mind there has been a clear answer for years that no one addressed and few users dared raise: lack of user data protection. (Not that anyone cared during the bubble/monopoly years, but users do eventually catch on and this single reason is more than enough to never come back even if the company eventually fixes it.)

(I had to make a considerable effort to not elaborate more, I'll leave it at this because next we'd have to examine why the community and the mods didn't push more on these fundamental issues.)

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    As I said on chat soon or later someone will snap and when that happens they are probably in for A LOT of hurt. They may try and avoid actually paying fines thanks to being "in another castle"... but in that case they probably would also have to say goodbye to any operation in the EU area. Commented Jul 25 at 8:01
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    stumbled on this by chance. Whilst it is about Teams specifically, it may be still worth reading. I will try to check if it says anything noteworthy when I get some time. Commented Aug 8 at 8:51
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    Users aren't leaving because of lack of user data protection, but because of classic American company incompetence, where bad decisions from upper management are continuously forced down through the organization, and nobody in the lower part of the hierarchy is allowed to question the bad decisions, but are rather encouraged to sell them. There's not a single such bad decision causing users to leave, but a very long list of them. This can't be fixed without very drastic measures.
    – Lundin
    Commented Aug 16 at 8:28
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    @Lundin "classic American company incompetence" saying that is bigotry, do you need examples in politics and business of this happening in Europe and everywhere else? What is true is that the GDPR is currently better in the EU and I get the impression this lack of concern with clear data protection puts the company in the early 2000's instead of 2024 - this one single issue by itself is more than enough motive to leave, it outweighs most other motives in gravity.
    – bad_coder
    Commented Aug 16 at 14:05
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    @bad_coder As long as American media or Americans in general keep cheering for companies like Tesla, Facebook and Amazon, they set a very strange norm for how companies and company leadership should behave. If for example a company like Tesla is using employment policies from the 1800s, why would you expect them to follow data protection policies from the 2000s? It is a cultural problem, unfortunately.
    – Lundin
    Commented Aug 16 at 14:49
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    @Lundin argumentativeness and contempt are also a problem, it could be said you have an antagonistic attitude by drawing the interlocutor into a stereotyped off-topic argument (which is also overbearing on readers). The right attitude would be seeing an OPs reason and conceding it to him no arguments needed, thus not starting with a flat out "knee jerk contradiction" for no good reason. (You're welcome and I'm an approachable communicative guy, but lets elevate things and set the bar high.)
    – bad_coder
    Commented Aug 16 at 17:21

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